+- nixers (https://nixers.net)
+-- Forum: General (https://nixers.net/Forum-General)
+--- Forum: Community & Forums Related Discussions (https://nixers.net/Forum-Community-Forums-Related-Discussions)
+--- Thread: You are in an open field west of a big white house... (/Thread-You-are-in-an-open-field-west-of-a-big-white-house)
You are in an open field west of a big white house... - gaak - 04-01-2019
Linux or BSD? both, happiest with arch and openbsd
Vim or Emacs? vim, tho i keep looking at vile, and use ed on servers
Systemd or init? init, maybe in 5 or 10 years systemd will be mature enough -- are logs in /var/log or journalctl, which target is the recovery/omg-its-all-borked target, '\S+ is taking a long time'...
Languages? C, perl, python, ocaml, golang -- nowadays mostly just python and golang for work, with ocaml for project euler.
Why unix? ease of automation (free tools!) and stability of interface (when was the last big backwards incompatibility in vi or emacs or TeX?). its bias against unnecessary change is a huge advantage in a world that already has more necessary change than we can process.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - venam - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 02:33 AM)gaak Wrote: Why unix? ease of automation (free tools!) and stability of interface (when was the last big backwards incompatibility in vi or emacs or TeX?). its bias against unnecessary change is a huge advantage in a world that already has more necessary change than we can process.
Nice introduction, straight to the point.
Welcome to the forums.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - jkl - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 02:33 AM)gaak Wrote: its bias against unnecessary change is a huge advantage in a world that already has more necessary change than we can process.
I thought you said you were happy with Arch.
Welcome to nixers.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - gaak - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 04:10 AM)jkl Wrote: I thought you said you were happy with Arch.
One or two problems at a time is a lot easier to manage than 1000 problems + downtime. that said, it can make sense to turn machines into puppet/chef scripts and spend a little to just forklift upgrade the boxes. yay for technical debt....
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - pkal - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 02:33 AM)gaak Wrote: Vim or Emacs? vim, tho i keep looking at vile, and use ed on servers
Why on earth would you want to use ed? It's a notoriously bad interactive editor, a product of a long-gone age, not matter what esoterics say. If you already use OpenBSD (I presume on servers?) why not use the two entirely sufficient alternatives: (classical) vi and mg?
(04-01-2019, 02:33 AM)gaak Wrote: its bias against unnecessary change is a huge advantage in a world that already has more necessary change than we can process.
Which doesn't mean that certain things shoudln't have been changed, and *nix makes it hard to change them.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - jkl - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 09:05 AM)zge Wrote: Why on earth would you want to use ed? It's a notoriously bad interactive editor, a product of a long-gone age, not matter what esoterics say.
vi - which you have suggested as an alternative - was written for a teletype system in the 70s, a "product of a long-gone age, no matter what esoterics say". It is basically a full-screen ed. Now how is that "modern" or even "good"? Its developer has made clear in 1999 that "vi was written for a world that doesn't exist anymore - unless you decide to get a satellite phone and use it to connect to the Net at 2400 baud". Now do you?
So why on earth would you want to use vi? :-)
edit, disclosure: I use ed on one half of my servers and teco on the other half. For one very good reason: Less overhead = less potential security fuckups.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - gaak - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 09:05 AM)zge Wrote: Why on earth would you want to use ed? It's a notoriously bad interactive editor, a product of a long-gone age, not matter what esoterics say. If you already use OpenBSD (I presume on servers?) why not use the two entirely sufficient alternatives: (classical) vi and mg?
vim + tmux to make a vim-slime that can capture all my remote edits. e.g.
Code:
ssh box
intf='enp131s0f1'
ed /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-${intf}
%p
a
ETHTOOL_OPTS="-G ${DEVICE} rx 4096"
.
wqhaving one huge file of all the work that's been done on servers is great.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - Dworin - 04-01-2019
Welcome here!
Admittedly, I just have a bog standard desktop but I have totally no problems with systemd on my arch system.
RE: You are in an open field west of a big white house... - gaak - 04-01-2019
(04-01-2019, 11:46 AM)Dworin Wrote: Admittedly, I just have a bog standard desktop but I have totally no problems with systemd on my arch system.
The less that's in-flight on a box, the easier it is to debug. Compare `ps aux` on your machine to an old init box:
Code:
$ ps aux
1 ? S 0:02 init
2 ? SW 0:00 kflushd
3 ? SW< 0:00 kswapd
9 ? S 0:00 update (bdflush)
142 ? S 0:00 /sbin/syslogd
144 ? S 0:00 /sbin/klogd
151 ? S 0:00 /sbin/kerneld
157 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
160 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/lpd
162 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/lpd
191 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/cron
206 2 S 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2
207 3 S 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
208 4 S 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4
209 5 S 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5
210 6 S 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6
1030 ? R 1:21 X :0
1035 1 S 0:02 rxvt -geometry 80x24+55+1 -fn -adobe-courier-medium-r-norm
2041 a3 S 0:01 pppd
2044 a3 S 0:02 wish /usr/local/bin/arc 120
2223 1 S 0:00 rxvt -fn -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90
2319 1 S 0:01 rxvt -fn -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90
2322 p1 S 0:00 -bash
4103 p1 R 0:00 ps -ax
155 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/rpc.portmap
205 1 S 0:01 -bash
1028 1 S 0:00 sh /usr/bin/X11/startx
1029 1 S 0:00 xinit /home/davidw/.xinitrc --
1032 1 S 0:00 /bin/sh /home/davidw/.xinitrc
1033 1 S 0:00 xclock -geometry 164x164+975+2
1036 1 S 0:05 fvwm
1037 p0 S 0:00 /bin/bash
1993 p0 S 0:04 pine
2224 p2 S 0:00 telnet efn.org
2320 p1 S 0:00 /bin/bash