FULL RANT WHICH I SINCERELY HOPE YOU CONSIDER VALID:

I work professionally with large code bases in Erlang, Scala and Java. There's a
bunch of tooling written in alot of other languages but those are the major ones.

I do almost all my coding in Vim, thanks to Eclim (the headless server neeasade
just mentioned (over half a year ago apparently).

It is a must if you are working in Vim with large projects, at least if you want
to focus on writing good code.

Try doing some more complex refactoring in an existing code base for example.
Should I come back with food in say... never? That's what I thought.

I recommend trying out Eclim and see how it can help improve your productivity!

> "Eclim doesn't work with editor X so Java sucks.. and slow if making AAA games"...

ok you're lost.. can't help you.

I use the IDE when I find a task or when I need to run some tooling, or whatever,
that is easier when done using the GUI built specifically for that task.

Enough on how to easily solve that editor issue.

---

And why was Eclipse even a problem?

OK - the JVM startup time can be a few seconds but once it's done booting up you're in.
Waiting for your slow computer to boot is not something that bothers you, but when the Editor takes a few seconds it's a disaster?
Still slow when it started? Go play developer on a faster computer.

Is it the GUI part you don't like because "that's not what they used to build X" then get your
head out of your ass (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-...02254.html).

I'm sure they would love the tools Eclipse exposes, but they didn't have the
wide range of tooling that we can choose from today.

But the language sucks if I need to use... *sigh*

These kind of reasons are more common than you'd think

The problem isn't the Editor.

The problem is that some arrogant idiot (the attitude is pretty obvious while reading)
who doesn't know Java, doesn't know the JVM and who thinks that the available
tooling is bloat... and that using your daily (undefined set of) tools is better.

I know you will all disagree and that I'm being a douche, bla bla old post bla
bla but posts like that is fucking stupid, and people just swallow it.

How many reads it and starts fixating around your mindset? Well, who knows.
But we see and hear this shit everywhere.. People who give advice about something they
think they know. Hopefully you'll meet some smart people who understand
that it doesn't work to be that close minded in this field.

If you want to teach them how to use make, manually write build specs and
grabbing dependencies - just show them the way to the local museum because
I'm sure they'll have time for an interactive workshop.

No one - except proud arrogant dicks like you - wants to manage that manually when
there are great tools to generate it for us, based on a set of rules.

The reason for these tools being invented in the first place was because the old
ones didn't do what the new environment needed done.

Send your build for a review and we could at least have some fun while we're at it.
200% performance miss because you prefer building Java with your own tools.
The tools who actually got to experience woodstock knows how this bloated java source
wants to be compiled. Compile dynamically in the JVM? No it will be too slow for my
stove led hud.

So stop being a reactionary dick and start using what's suitable for the task, if
what you intend to do is development. Is the goal a good application or 412 LOC?

Make is great, when Makefile's are generated for you.

"But X is using only make with 2000 lines of code" - ask the build team if they
finally enjoy reading through logs 8 hours aday.

Yes, your shitty project with 3 source files works great without a generator
and is really "leightweight, fast and posix-compliant". No one forces you to use
anything else but stop teaching others on how to build X better because trust
me that you are doing more harm then good.

One more time... Stop telling them X is better than Y.

I don't want my future pacemaker have (knock on wood) have a builtin update module
checking for patches because people are taught that it's easy to write C.

As a member of a community with 10k members you probably have a bunch of kids
looking up to you - which sets the whole fanboyism in action once again.

So get your mindset fixed, be responsible and DON'T tell them not to use A because
it's not fast or lightweight enough... for the desktop email indicator they are
planning to write.

"But I made a program in C and it's only 21K. Super leightweight, and posix which
obviously means that Java, Go, Rust, Ruby, Python or whatever sucks. Because
it's big and I might run my programs on devices made 80 years ago..."

It's fun to write programs or services that people enjoy using, and that's
probably something 90% of the kids won't experience since they're still looking
for a bug in Makefile.platform15 caused by someone telling them that abstraction
is bad and that you suck if you don't use foo, bar and of course C.

I love C, when we're separated by an abstraction layer..

"It gets so slow if you don't do it the hardcore way!!!1"
I hear this alot but I never see any valid tests being done. Fascinating.

---

A few days after I joined I saw a kid in the channel ranting about how much Java
sucks. He was talking about how much he hated object oriented programming.
A few hours later he asked what an object was.

That pretty much explains how easily affected they are because some asshole
tells them about what is right and what is wrong. Teach them stuff they
actully can use.. then the College professors won't have to deal with trying
to find "that guy" and make sure he doesn't get everyone else onboard.

There's some cool ppl on here, but I think I'm going back to the 21st century
where people are pushing software development in the right direction.

peace.

-- exaggerating? me? really...? (in case of ban - please add warning for future
readers who might risk getting polluted)