(29-11-2018, 04:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: Why do you call sam a "multiline" ed though? Because its command apply to the dot rather than linewise?

ed uses lines as the standard unit of a text. sam does not (quite).

(29-11-2018, 04:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: I love sam as well (and that is the reason why I use vis(1), which uses sam expressions and commands, wrapped in a vi-like interface)

I find modal editing unnecessarily annoying. The standard mode for editing text should be the one where I can type a letter and it appears on the screen. (That does not automatically invalidate my argument that ed and TECO are good editors though. ;-))

(29-11-2018, 04:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: I must admit that I don't know how it integrates within plan9, so I don't understand your comment about the OS level UI language. What do you mean?

What I mean is: sam - at least in the recommended samterm mode - provides a (for the 80s...) modern mouse-driven GUI without sacrificing the power of editing commands. That's what I would like to have in other operating systems: GUIs as a first-class citizen without hiding the command mode from the user. You currently have either a "kind of hidden" command mode (e.g. Windows NT) or a GUI that does not feel like it came natively with the OS (e.g. all those Linuces and BSDs).

(29-11-2018, 04:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: Unix systems can totally provide GUI installations, and they do! see Ubuntu store for example which is nice.

I'm trying hard not to slap you with a trout, good sir. "Unix systems", "Ubuntu store" ... :-) yes, there is a lot of Windows simulation going on in the Linux world. In order to achieve what? And why? But I thought we were talking about OS installations, not package installations.

(29-11-2018, 04:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: You have to learn how to "speak" your computer language, which is tedious, but in the end it is easier to bind your computer's will by explaining what you want to do, rather than miming it through the GUI

Your computer - unless it's one of those very old architectures - speaks Hexadecimal. You will not understand your computer better just because you go a longer, harder way to control your operating system. And there are GUI debuggers for the former... ;-)

(29-11-2018, 08:31 PM)twee Wrote: i never got on with plan9 and acme. I havent used it much but I thought acme was too reminiscient of emacs without actually getting there :(

Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M

(29-11-2018, 08:31 PM)twee Wrote: (also this absolutely fits here, it is a great introduction to the opinions of forum members , all 2 of you ;))

Now we are at least three members here!

(30-11-2018, 02:19 AM)venam Wrote: However I agree with z3bra:

(28-11-2018, 07:34 PM)z3bra Wrote: Better don't assume anything to be available anywhere at all.

Oy, don't misquote me!

(30-11-2018, 02:19 AM)venam Wrote: Now, you've even touched the "Linux is not Unix" usual talk and the "We need to move on from the past interfaces, they're too old".

Which has not been solved once and for all just yet. :-p

(30-11-2018, 02:19 AM)venam Wrote: And to link back to the previous topic of text editors, servers don't usually come installed with a graphical environment by default and such programs are avoided for many reasons.

The main reason I could imagine is that a graphical interface basically steals CPU cycles on common operating systems, making the "supercomputer" less "super". But this could mostly be solved by writing the OS around a GUI. I doubt that it is impossible to write a native low-level GUI for a processor that wouldn't impose a barely noticeable load on it.