ne0phyte Wrote:Since I can't comment over there..
> http://blog.z3bra.org/2013/09/java-without-eclipse.html

Yeah, It's just plain HTML. I don't want to bother with PHP or externalize comments. I prefer other conventinnal meant of communication to debate on my opinions :)

ne0phyte Wrote:Meh. I agree to some amount, but... have you ever worked on a big Java [Enterprise] project?
No sane mind would want to do that without an IDE. Have you done some major refactoring before? Like modifying an interface with 50 or even 500+ references in the project or implementing/extending classes?

I must say that I have not. And I'm not saying that my method would be better than using an IDE. But it's doable (even if painfull :p)

ne0phyte Wrote:The workspace of the project at work contains over 25k *.java files. Admittedly, that contains the source of our internal framework (~5k files) and some currently not deployed/unused components.

I maintain what I said. You DON'T need eclipse (or any other IDE). But I agree that it will be really painfull to work with this project without a proper IDE, for a few reasons:

* Your project was (i guess) initiated and made for a particular IDE, so it can be hard to manage it with your UNIX IDE.
* These are not one-shot project, so everything is linked to everything (I wish I'll never work with something like that)
* Java is (as I see it) made to be developped under specific IDEs. With pre-made plugin for testing, branching, etc...
* Project is ever set up when you join it.

As long as you don't start from scratch, the method I describe is REALLY hard to implement. Because everything is setup to work with the IDE, and not with specific tools. Also, writing a Makefile for a 5k .java file seems impossible. But If you start from a basic Makefile, and add targets / files when you create 'em, it's easier. It probably take more time than cliking "build & run", but if I can do it with my poor java knowledge, you probably can do it too :)

ne0phyte Wrote:I've written some Java without Eclipse, but if you are used to it and know many of the shortcuts then you are way faster. And although I know a good part of the Java standard library by heart, using auto-complete saves me a lot of time. Especially when you already know what's coming and you hit the corresponding shortcut before the list even pops up :P

Same for me, but with vim :) (but I can"t argue that I know Java libs by heart haha)

Anyway, I agree that this method does not suit everybody, and that it can be painfull most of the time. But it is , imho, the price to using your own tools.
Yes, it is harder, but at least, you have full control on what you do. The same goes for your graphical environment for exemple. Setting up Xorg + WM + shortcuts + programs is much more longer and harder than just installing Gnome and getting used to it. But hey, do you run Gnome ?