<![CDATA[nixers - Old school stuff]]>

<![CDATA[nixers - Old school stuff]]> https://nixers.net/ Fri, 17 Apr 2026 15:05:23 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Ken Thompson tells a story]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Ken-Thompson-tells-a-story Mon, 27 Oct 2025 02:22:18 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Ken-Thompson-tells-a-story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmVHkL0IWk4]]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmVHkL0IWk4]]> <![CDATA[The Origins of Emacs, uncovered.]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-Origins-of-Emacs-uncovered Wed, 24 Jul 2024 00:54:29 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-Origins-of-Emacs-uncovered https://onlisp.co.uk/On-the-Origin-of-Em...-1976.html]]> https://onlisp.co.uk/On-the-Origin-of-Em...-1976.html]]> <![CDATA[Old vi]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Old-vi Wed, 15 May 2024 22:08:02 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Old-vi Result: a new Vim patch…

https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/14778]]> Result: a new Vim patch…

https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/14778]]> <![CDATA[CB UNIX: DevOps before it was cool]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-CB-UNIX-DevOps-before-it-was-cool Wed, 30 Jun 2021 01:50:57 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-CB-UNIX-DevOps-before-it-was-cool have come with the allofc command which I could not find in any other system.

Quote:The allofc utility program was created to simplify the update/upgrade procedures. Allofc permits a sequence of UNIX commands to be performed in some or all office and type directories.

Arguably, its usage seems to be less intuitive than you'd think; still looks much less like a big pile of webshit poo than what "modern" "developers" call "DevOps".

The man page claims that allofc came as a part of (a version of) SCCS which makes sense, in a way. I wonder if it has spread into other Unices at some point in time.]]> <![CDATA[Arbitrary code execution bug in the reference Turing Machine]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Arbitrary-code-execution-bug-in-the-reference-Turing-Machine Tue, 11 May 2021 10:27:10 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Arbitrary-code-execution-bug-in-the-reference-Turing-Machine https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cg...2021-32471]]> https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cg...2021-32471]]> <![CDATA[The demise of old software because of Firefox]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-demise-of-old-software-because-of-Firefox Mon, 07 Dec 2020 20:09:18 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-demise-of-old-software-because-of-Firefox
Chris:

Quote:As FTP sites stop being indexed, accessed, or usable in browsers, people also start running out of reasons to keep them operating. Many of the most valuable FTP sites for me are ones that are historical relics, and apparently survive primarily on benign neglect. Their contents are highly unlikely to be moved to HTTP sites; instead it's more likely that the contents will be discarded entirely.

A quality thought, in my opinion.]]>
Chris:

Quote:As FTP sites stop being indexed, accessed, or usable in browsers, people also start running out of reasons to keep them operating. Many of the most valuable FTP sites for me are ones that are historical relics, and apparently survive primarily on benign neglect. Their contents are highly unlikely to be moved to HTTP sites; instead it's more likely that the contents will be discarded entirely.

A quality thought, in my opinion.]]> <![CDATA[Dotfiles, a big mistake]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Dotfiles-a-big-mistake Thu, 09 Jul 2020 05:41:59 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Dotfiles-a-big-mistake archived copy):

Quote: I’m pretty sure the concept of a hidden file was an unintended consequence. It was certainly a mistake.

I tend to agree. It makes no sense to have user configuration files which are hidden by default. I guess that all developers on nixers could learn from it. I certainly will.]]> archived copy):

Quote: I’m pretty sure the concept of a hidden file was an unintended consequence. It was certainly a mistake.

I tend to agree. It makes no sense to have user configuration files which are hidden by default. I guess that all developers on nixers could learn from it. I certainly will.]]> <![CDATA[Goodbye, EBCDIC (for ksh)...]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Goodbye-EBCDIC-for-ksh Sat, 20 Apr 2019 22:14:19 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Goodbye-EBCDIC-for-ksh Sad day:

Quote:Support for building on systems using EBCDIC has been removed (issue #742).

ksh2020 - finally, a full new upgrade after ksh93! - won't support those mainframes anymore. :-(]]> Sad day:

Quote:Support for building on systems using EBCDIC has been removed (issue #742).

ksh2020 - finally, a full new upgrade after ksh93! - won't support those mainframes anymore. :-(]]> <![CDATA["Purple Card"]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Purple-Card Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:50:54 +0000 pkal]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Purple-Card

Quote:For [Unix] v6 and v7 Lorinda Cherry prepared a pocket reference, familiarly known as the ‘‘Purple Card, which is not shown. (source, p. 15)

But I couldn't find any scan or other independent mentions. Has anyone here heard about it, or knows where to find it?]]>

Quote:For [Unix] v6 and v7 Lorinda Cherry prepared a pocket reference, familiarly known as the ‘‘Purple Card, which is not shown. (source, p. 15)

But I couldn't find any scan or other independent mentions. Has anyone here heard about it, or knows where to find it?]]> <![CDATA[Ubuntu's 1971 bugs]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Ubuntu-s-1971-bugs Mon, 05 Nov 2018 17:44:50 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Ubuntu-s-1971-bugs Hilarious:

Quote:Your brand new Ubuntu 18.10 has /bin and /usr/bin cause one specific system in 1971-1973 ran out of disk space on one of these 2.5MB fixed disk drives.

Full thread on Twitter.]]> Hilarious:

Quote:Your brand new Ubuntu 18.10 has /bin and /usr/bin cause one specific system in 1971-1973 ran out of disk space on one of these 2.5MB fixed disk drives.

Full thread on Twitter.]]> <![CDATA[Idea for a "week of the vintage OS"]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Idea-for-a-week-of-the-vintage-OS Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:17:40 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Idea-for-a-week-of-the-vintage-OS
As I feel surprisingly comfortable with most of the replacements (the latest one being TECO, replacing ed (please don't judge me)), I wonder if it would be worth a dare to limit yourself to software available before 1985* for a week. I am fine with allowing web browsers though... ;-)

Anyone in?

* The year is not set in stone just yet. But there was some fine stuff in the mid-80s.]]>
As I feel surprisingly comfortable with most of the replacements (the latest one being TECO, replacing ed (please don't judge me)), I wonder if it would be worth a dare to limit yourself to software available before 1985* for a week. I am fine with allowing web browsers though... ;-)

Anyone in?

* The year is not set in stone just yet. But there was some fine stuff in the mid-80s.]]> <![CDATA[Keeping machines alive]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Keeping-machines-alive Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:51:23 +0000 venam]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Keeping-machines-alive All things will die someday, this is inevitable. However it has always been a thing in software hardware development to put on a certain date when the company/entity will drop support for it, or even in some cases force users to switch to newer solutions. Sometimes it goes under the term of Long Term Support and End of Life Support, other time it goes by the name of Planned Obsolescence or Built-In Obsolescence.

And here comes the subject of this thread: I've seen a lot of machines being thrown away for no good reasons other than that it's not supported anymore and I've seen a lot of other machines being brought back to life by some sort of Unix-like OS or by fetching from somewhere a similar version of the OS maintained by some stranger on the internet. There's a lot of keeping alive both of software and of hardware, the Unix community seems like the one that keeps this to heart more than any other.

What is your opinion on the topic of long term support and keeping alive software and hardware in general.

Here's mine: I find it fascinating that you can run old school software and that it's still being actively studied and worked on. You won't have to worry about things such as a digital dark age when the format of files is lost and they can't be read anymore (well some roff stuffs are still being deciphered but still it's all text).

And as far as hardware is related there's really a flexibility of choices and how much you can calibrate the "heaviness" of what's being installed. The old machines can still run fine and be brought to life while having the latest security patches. Maybe they won't be able to run the latest browser but they're not thrown away.

While on the other side of things, there are a lot, maybe too much, fanaticism about those old softwares and their descendants. The whole backward compatibility that accumulates over time also accumulates in a persons brain.

So nixers, what do you think of the relation between Unix and supporting older machines and softwares.]]> All things will die someday, this is inevitable. However it has always been a thing in software hardware development to put on a certain date when the company/entity will drop support for it, or even in some cases force users to switch to newer solutions. Sometimes it goes under the term of Long Term Support and End of Life Support, other time it goes by the name of Planned Obsolescence or Built-In Obsolescence.

And here comes the subject of this thread: I've seen a lot of machines being thrown away for no good reasons other than that it's not supported anymore and I've seen a lot of other machines being brought back to life by some sort of Unix-like OS or by fetching from somewhere a similar version of the OS maintained by some stranger on the internet. There's a lot of keeping alive both of software and of hardware, the Unix community seems like the one that keeps this to heart more than any other.

What is your opinion on the topic of long term support and keeping alive software and hardware in general.

Here's mine: I find it fascinating that you can run old school software and that it's still being actively studied and worked on. You won't have to worry about things such as a digital dark age when the format of files is lost and they can't be read anymore (well some roff stuffs are still being deciphered but still it's all text).

And as far as hardware is related there's really a flexibility of choices and how much you can calibrate the "heaviness" of what's being installed. The old machines can still run fine and be brought to life while having the latest security patches. Maybe they won't be able to run the latest browser but they're not thrown away.

While on the other side of things, there are a lot, maybe too much, fanaticism about those old softwares and their descendants. The whole backward compatibility that accumulates over time also accumulates in a persons brain.

So nixers, what do you think of the relation between Unix and supporting older machines and softwares.]]> <![CDATA[AT&T Research Unix version 6, setuid]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-AT-T-Research-Unix-version-6-setuid Wed, 08 Aug 2018 22:21:18 +0000 burrows]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-AT-T-Research-Unix-version-6-setuid that someone can explain the purpose of setuid's unprivileged behavior.

From the Sixth Edition Programmer Manual.

DESCRIPTION
The user ID of the current process is set to the argument.
Both the effective and the real user ID are set. This call
is only permitted to the super-user or if the argument is
the real user ID.

From the Lions book.

setuid()
{
register uid;

uid = u.u_ar0[R0].lobyte;
if(u.u_ruid == uid.lobyte || suser()) {
u.u_uid = uid;
u.u_procp->p_uid = uid;
u.u_ruid = uid;
}
}

suser()
{

if(u.u_uid == 0)
return(1);
u.u_error = EPERM;
return(0);
}

An unprivileged caller is only permitted to assign the real user ID to the
effective user ID. For a standard root:root suid, this was insufficient
for reacquiring root privileges. The (r:0,e:0) process would setuid to
a luser (r:1,e:1) and then setuid would be a noop or error. AT&T eventually
solved this problem with saved-set-UID. BSD Unix implemeneted setreuid to solve
the same issue.

One (unconventional?) use case I can identify; a (r:0, e:0) process execs
an suid owned by a luser (r:0, e:1). Then the process uses setuid to reacquire
root (r:0, e:0).

Was there a standard usage of this unprivileged behavior?]]> that someone can explain the purpose of setuid's unprivileged behavior.

From the Sixth Edition Programmer Manual.

DESCRIPTION
The user ID of the current process is set to the argument.
Both the effective and the real user ID are set. This call
is only permitted to the super-user or if the argument is
the real user ID.

From the Lions book.

setuid()
{
register uid;

uid = u.u_ar0[R0].lobyte;
if(u.u_ruid == uid.lobyte || suser()) {
u.u_uid = uid;
u.u_procp->p_uid = uid;
u.u_ruid = uid;
}
}

suser()
{

if(u.u_uid == 0)
return(1);
u.u_error = EPERM;
return(0);
}

An unprivileged caller is only permitted to assign the real user ID to the
effective user ID. For a standard root:root suid, this was insufficient
for reacquiring root privileges. The (r:0,e:0) process would setuid to
a luser (r:1,e:1) and then setuid would be a noop or error. AT&T eventually
solved this problem with saved-set-UID. BSD Unix implemeneted setreuid to solve
the same issue.

One (unconventional?) use case I can identify; a (r:0, e:0) process execs
an suid owned by a luser (r:0, e:1). Then the process uses setuid to reacquire
root (r:0, e:0).

Was there a standard usage of this unprivileged behavior?]]> <![CDATA[The History of Grep]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-History-of-Grep Sat, 07 Jul 2018 11:28:57 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-History-of-Grep Prof. Brian Kernighan talks about how grep came into existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfOnGZUZDk]]> Prof. Brian Kernighan talks about how grep came into existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfOnGZUZDk]]> <![CDATA[Tools, glue, scripts, and automation on Unix]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Tools-glue-scripts-and-automation-on-Unix Sat, 03 Mar 2018 12:40:48 +0000 venam]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Tools-glue-scripts-and-automation-on-Unix podcast discussion extension)

After an even longer hiatus, here it is:

Tools, glue, scripts, and automation on Unix

Link of the recording [ https://github.com/nixers-projects/podca...3?raw=true http://podcast.nixers.net/feed/download....03-031.mp3 ]

We take for granted scripting, automation, glue code, software as tools, so let's visit their history and learn more about them.

References:

Scripting or Glue-coding:
https://nixers.net/showthread.php?tid=1893
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glue_code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adapter_pattern
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/...11s06.html
http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ch001j.c11
https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html#pipes

roff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roff_(computer_program)
https://www.gnu.org/software/groff/manua...story.html
http://troff.org/history.html
https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff...00104.html
http://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?fil...an1/roff.1

bc/dc:
http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/dc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bc_(programming_language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dc_%28computer_program%29
https://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/95-09-015
https://www.gnu.org/software/bc/manual/h...no/bc.html
http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/
http://www.cypherspace.org/rsa/
http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Cryp...rithm.html
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/reader.pdf
http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/2010050623.../hist.html

ed/ex:
http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/ed
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?...c/cmd/ed.c
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_(text_editor)
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/commu...or?lang=en
https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/category/ed/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_(text_editor)
http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/editors
https://nixwindows.wordpress.com/2018/03...-complete/

vi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi
http://thomer.com/vi/vi.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_(software)
http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Emacs
http://www.finseth.com/emacs.html#25
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!origin...lQiUR7aeYJ

g/re/p:
https://www.reddit.com/r/unix/comments/7...day_about/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grep
https://medium.com/@rualthanzauva/grep-w...0e24a5ef48
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/969.../grep.html
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/grep

sed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed
https://blog.sourcerer.io/a-brief-histor...eaf00302ed
http://groups.engin.umd.umich.edu/CIS/co...d/sed.html
http://exactcode.com/opensource/minised/

awk:
https://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual...story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK

Make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makefile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software)
http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/h...15s04.html

http://sasamat.xen.prgmr.com/michaelochu...hilosophy/
https://mkaz.tech/geek/unix-is-my-ide/
https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/series/unix-as-ide/
https://dspinellis.github.io/unix-history-man/

If you want to contribute check this thread.

Music:
Catmosphere - Candy-Coloured Sky: https://soundcloud.com/argofox/catmosphe...ns-license]]> podcast discussion extension)

After an even longer hiatus, here it is:

Tools, glue, scripts, and automation on Unix

Link of the recording [ https://github.com/nixers-projects/podca...3?raw=true http://podcast.nixers.net/feed/download....03-031.mp3 ]

We take for granted scripting, automation, glue code, software as tools, so let's visit their history and learn more about them.

References:

Scripting or Glue-coding:
https://nixers.net/showthread.php?tid=1893
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glue_code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adapter_pattern
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/...11s06.html
http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ch001j.c11
https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html#pipes

roff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roff_(computer_program)
https://www.gnu.org/software/groff/manua...story.html
http://troff.org/history.html
https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff...00104.html
http://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?fil...an1/roff.1

bc/dc:
http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/dc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bc_(programming_language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dc_%28computer_program%29
https://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/95-09-015
https://www.gnu.org/software/bc/manual/h...no/bc.html
http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/
http://www.cypherspace.org/rsa/
http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Cryp...rithm.html
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/reader.pdf
http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/2010050623.../hist.html

ed/ex:
http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/ed
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?...c/cmd/ed.c
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_(text_editor)
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/commu...or?lang=en
https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/category/ed/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_(text_editor)
http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/editors
https://nixwindows.wordpress.com/2018/03...-complete/

vi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi
http://thomer.com/vi/vi.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_(software)
http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Emacs
http://www.finseth.com/emacs.html#25
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!origin...lQiUR7aeYJ

g/re/p:
https://www.reddit.com/r/unix/comments/7...day_about/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grep
https://medium.com/@rualthanzauva/grep-w...0e24a5ef48
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/969.../grep.html
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/grep

sed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed
https://blog.sourcerer.io/a-brief-histor...eaf00302ed
http://groups.engin.umd.umich.edu/CIS/co...d/sed.html
http://exactcode.com/opensource/minised/

awk:
https://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual...story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK

Make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makefile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software)
http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/h...15s04.html

http://sasamat.xen.prgmr.com/michaelochu...hilosophy/
https://mkaz.tech/geek/unix-is-my-ide/
https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/series/unix-as-ide/
https://dspinellis.github.io/unix-history-man/

If you want to contribute check this thread.

Music:
Catmosphere - Candy-Coloured Sky: https://soundcloud.com/argofox/catmosphe...ns-license]]>