<![CDATA[nixers - Other *nix-like OSes & POSIX related]]> https://nixers.net/ Thu, 14 May 2026 02:41:56 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[UNIX maximalism and minimalism]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-UNIX-maximalism-and-minimalism Fri, 21 Feb 2025 19:41:48 +0000 ckester]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-UNIX-maximalism-and-minimalism
After reading it, I'm prompted to ask: is the trend to rewrite so many utilities in Rust or Go an example of minimalism, or of bloat?

I'm tempted to say the latter, because I don't care for the toolchains they bring along. Any time I look at the git repository for some tempting project and see references to cargo, I say no thank you. I dislike that almost as much as cmake.

(It's taken me years to grudgingly accept autotools. But it's still a strike against any program that uses them.)

And maybe I'm misunderstanding or overreacting but golang apparently has a worrisome style of pulling dependencies out of the cloud. Um, no, I'm not comfortable with that either.

What do my fellow nixers think? Am I just a crotchety old C programmer who likes simple makefiles? and everything statically linked and preferably less than a megabyte after stripping (less than 500K even better)?]]>
After reading it, I'm prompted to ask: is the trend to rewrite so many utilities in Rust or Go an example of minimalism, or of bloat?

I'm tempted to say the latter, because I don't care for the toolchains they bring along. Any time I look at the git repository for some tempting project and see references to cargo, I say no thank you. I dislike that almost as much as cmake.

(It's taken me years to grudgingly accept autotools. But it's still a strike against any program that uses them.)

And maybe I'm misunderstanding or overreacting but golang apparently has a worrisome style of pulling dependencies out of the cloud. Um, no, I'm not comfortable with that either.

What do my fellow nixers think? Am I just a crotchety old C programmer who likes simple makefiles? and everything statically linked and preferably less than a megabyte after stripping (less than 500K even better)?]]> <![CDATA[XDG_CONFIG_HOME as ~/etc]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-XDG-CONFIG-HOME-as-etc Sat, 02 Sep 2023 11:25:38 +0000 adi]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-XDG-CONFIG-HOME-as-etc
Code:
export XDG_DATA_HOME=~/share
export XDG_CONFIG_HOME=~/etc
export XDG_STATE_HOME=~/local/state
export XDG_CACHE_HOME=~/var/cache
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=~/var/run

Make a lot of sense I believe.]]>
Code:
export XDG_DATA_HOME=~/share
export XDG_CONFIG_HOME=~/etc
export XDG_STATE_HOME=~/local/state
export XDG_CACHE_HOME=~/var/cache
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=~/var/run

Make a lot of sense I believe.]]> <![CDATA[Uxn virtual machine]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Uxn-virtual-machine Sat, 22 May 2021 07:37:16 +0000 s0kx]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Uxn-virtual-machine
This quote from the main website sums it up pretty well:
Quote:Uxn is a portable 8-bit virtual computer inspired by forth-machines, capable of running simple tools and games programmable in its own esoteric assembly language. The distribution of Uxn projects is not unlike downloading a rom for a console, Uxn has its own emulator.

Some links to get you started
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxn.html
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxambly.html
https://git.sr.ht/~rabbits/uxn

... and a quick drum rack demo if you want to skip over the technical stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0u5xc-wHE]]>
This quote from the main website sums it up pretty well:
Quote:Uxn is a portable 8-bit virtual computer inspired by forth-machines, capable of running simple tools and games programmable in its own esoteric assembly language. The distribution of Uxn projects is not unlike downloading a rom for a console, Uxn has its own emulator.

Some links to get you started
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxn.html
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxambly.html
https://git.sr.ht/~rabbits/uxn

... and a quick drum rack demo if you want to skip over the technical stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0u5xc-wHE]]> <![CDATA[Most automaton-friendly OS/Distro?]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Most-automaton-friendly-OS-Distro Tue, 11 May 2021 12:36:42 +0000 freem]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Most-automaton-friendly-OS-Distro
I wanted to know, what is the most automaton-friendly by default system you know, and why is it, for you, the best on that?

What I mean is, take an OS, install it without changing more than strictly required to get it working.
It could already be ready to automate a lot, for example already running cfengine, chef, puppet, or alike and have it's configuration already done in templates, or it should be damn easy to get it to that point, I don't know.

If you know such a system, which one would it be?]]>
I wanted to know, what is the most automaton-friendly by default system you know, and why is it, for you, the best on that?

What I mean is, take an OS, install it without changing more than strictly required to get it working.
It could already be ready to automate a lot, for example already running cfengine, chef, puppet, or alike and have it's configuration already done in templates, or it should be damn easy to get it to that point, I don't know.

If you know such a system, which one would it be?]]> <![CDATA[Interim OS]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Interim-OS Fri, 23 Apr 2021 03:42:26 +0000 pfr]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Interim-OS
Anyone else has a look at Interim OS yet? I haven't been able to get it running yet as I don't have a Pi. Actually I didn't even succeed in building an image to begin with but that's probably because I didn't spend much time on it.

Just wanted to share and see what you all think :)

http://interim-os.com/
https://github.com/mntmn/interim
https://therealmntmn.tumblr.com/post/128...-prototype

EDIT: Not a new project by any means, only new to me :)]]>
Anyone else has a look at Interim OS yet? I haven't been able to get it running yet as I don't have a Pi. Actually I didn't even succeed in building an image to begin with but that's probably because I didn't spend much time on it.

Just wanted to share and see what you all think :)

http://interim-os.com/
https://github.com/mntmn/interim
https://therealmntmn.tumblr.com/post/128...-prototype

EDIT: Not a new project by any means, only new to me :)]]> <![CDATA[Sculpt OS and the Genode OS Framework]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Sculpt-OS-and-the-Genode-OS-Framework Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:30:16 +0000 pfr]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Sculpt-OS-and-the-Genode-OS-Framework
I'm just gonna get right into it. Sculpt OS! who's heard of it or even tried it?
It looks rather interesting. Link here: https://genode.org/download/sculpt

TL;DR
- Sculpt OS combines Genode's microkernel architecture
- Capability-based security
- Sandboxed device drivers and virtual machines
- Runs on x86 (32 and 64 bit), ARM, RISC-V
etc.

Most importantly, the screenshots:
https://genode.org/about/screenshots

Here is an introductory lecture from 2018! (sorry for youtube :()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80h9X2v_yiQ

There has been 2 new releases this year so far and another due in August. The 2020 Road Map focuses a lot on user friendliness wider the adoption of the OS in general.

Check out the screenshots and watch the video to see the work flow. I think this project looks cool although maybe not practical for desktop use as yet. In order to run a web browser you need to run it in a linux VM for now, but I'm hopefull that a native browser will be developed somewhere along the line.

What are your thoughts?]]>
I'm just gonna get right into it. Sculpt OS! who's heard of it or even tried it?
It looks rather interesting. Link here: https://genode.org/download/sculpt

TL;DR
- Sculpt OS combines Genode's microkernel architecture
- Capability-based security
- Sandboxed device drivers and virtual machines
- Runs on x86 (32 and 64 bit), ARM, RISC-V
etc.

Most importantly, the screenshots:
https://genode.org/about/screenshots

Here is an introductory lecture from 2018! (sorry for youtube :()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80h9X2v_yiQ

There has been 2 new releases this year so far and another due in August. The 2020 Road Map focuses a lot on user friendliness wider the adoption of the OS in general.

Check out the screenshots and watch the video to see the work flow. I think this project looks cool although maybe not practical for desktop use as yet. In order to run a web browser you need to run it in a linux VM for now, but I'm hopefull that a native browser will be developed somewhere along the line.

What are your thoughts?]]> <![CDATA[A digression on echo.]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-A-digression-on-echo--2311 Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:57:49 +0000 seninha]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-A-digression-on-echo--2311 this thread I remembered a text on echo that Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike wrote in their book The UNIX Programming Environment called A digression on echo.

[Image: j5kXsXV.png]

The single option -n is not like other options in other utilities.
For example, while most utilities use getopt(3) to get the options, echo(1) should not use it, since a gotten option could be an argument to be echoed. See how OpenBSD implement echo, for example:

Code:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <err.h>

/* ARGSUSED */
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    int nflag;

    if (pledge("stdio", NULL) == -1)
        err(1, "pledge");

    /* This utility may NOT do getopt(3) option parsing. */
    if (*++argv && !strcmp(*argv, "-n")) {
        ++argv;
        nflag = 1;
    }
    else
        nflag = 0;

    while (*argv) {
        (void)fputs(*argv, stdout);
        if (*++argv)
            putchar(' ');
    }
    if (!nflag)
        putchar('\n');

    return 0;
}

Other than -n, modern echo implementations also add a new complexity: the C-like backslash sequences like '\n' and '\t'. Some echo implementations (such as OpenBSD's) just ignore them, but some (such as Bash built-in) don't. Here is another digression on echo about this very topic, by Doug Mcllroy, best known for proposing the UNIX pipelines and creating several UNIX tools:

[Image: gFPe9sR.png]

There is, however, another utility that does not print newlines when not asked for and that does interpret C-like backslash sequences: printf(1)

PS: I don't know the right forum to post it. I posted it here in the Philosophy forum since I think that the question on bloatedness and feature creep are related to UNIX Philosophy.]]> this thread I remembered a text on echo that Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike wrote in their book The UNIX Programming Environment called A digression on echo.

[Image: j5kXsXV.png]

The single option -n is not like other options in other utilities.
For example, while most utilities use getopt(3) to get the options, echo(1) should not use it, since a gotten option could be an argument to be echoed. See how OpenBSD implement echo, for example:

Code:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <err.h>

/* ARGSUSED */
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    int nflag;

    if (pledge("stdio", NULL) == -1)
        err(1, "pledge");

    /* This utility may NOT do getopt(3) option parsing. */
    if (*++argv && !strcmp(*argv, "-n")) {
        ++argv;
        nflag = 1;
    }
    else
        nflag = 0;

    while (*argv) {
        (void)fputs(*argv, stdout);
        if (*++argv)
            putchar(' ');
    }
    if (!nflag)
        putchar('\n');

    return 0;
}

Other than -n, modern echo implementations also add a new complexity: the C-like backslash sequences like '\n' and '\t'. Some echo implementations (such as OpenBSD's) just ignore them, but some (such as Bash built-in) don't. Here is another digression on echo about this very topic, by Doug Mcllroy, best known for proposing the UNIX pipelines and creating several UNIX tools:

[Image: gFPe9sR.png]

There is, however, another utility that does not print newlines when not asked for and that does interpret C-like backslash sequences: printf(1)

PS: I don't know the right forum to post it. I posted it here in the Philosophy forum since I think that the question on bloatedness and feature creep are related to UNIX Philosophy.]]> <![CDATA[The Unix Haters Handbook]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-Unix-Haters-Handbook Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:59:34 +0000 Steph]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-Unix-Haters-Handbook
Just sharing something I was reading, I'd be very interested in some of the rebuttals and thoughts that you would have!

It's a (lengthy) PDF for a book called the Unix Haters Handbook, which enumerates many of the authors complaints and qualms with Unix.


The full pdf is available:

http://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf]]>
Just sharing something I was reading, I'd be very interested in some of the rebuttals and thoughts that you would have!

It's a (lengthy) PDF for a book called the Unix Haters Handbook, which enumerates many of the authors complaints and qualms with Unix.


The full pdf is available:

http://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf]]> <![CDATA[The end of Sun]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-end-of-Sun Tue, 05 Sep 2017 08:51:03 +0000 pyratebeard]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-end-of-Sun news that Oracle has laid off the core team at Solaris, do you think the open source community will work to keep the OS alive? I know there are a number of derivatives already out there.

It seems sad that Oracle took on a relatively popular OS, made it closed source, then just let it crumble away. I have worked a little with Solaris systems in the past and it was always a pretty decent OS for running servers.

Has anybody had any experience with Solaris? and how do people feel about what Oracle have done to it?]]> news that Oracle has laid off the core team at Solaris, do you think the open source community will work to keep the OS alive? I know there are a number of derivatives already out there.

It seems sad that Oracle took on a relatively popular OS, made it closed source, then just let it crumble away. I have worked a little with Solaris systems in the past and it was always a pretty decent OS for running servers.

Has anybody had any experience with Solaris? and how do people feel about what Oracle have done to it?]]> <![CDATA[The reliability of cat-v.org]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-reliability-of-cat-v-org Mon, 27 Feb 2017 17:29:50 +0000 jkl]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-reliability-of-cat-v-org <![CDATA[Chocolate Milk]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Chocolate-Milk Sun, 18 Sep 2016 09:59:11 +0000 venam]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Chocolate-Milk
Chocolate Milk


Link of the recording [ https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nixers...-09-18.mp3 http://podcast.nixers.net/feed/download....09-181.mp3 ]


Adam's story, milky chocolate, unicomp, and plan9.

--(Show Notes)--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicomp
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html
http://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/15235...ng-System/
http://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/15235...tem//page2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_milk
http://pub.iotek.org/p/R4hgeL5
http://pub.iotek.org/p/iK0FNXy

Music: Future Chiptune - Andrey Avkhimovich
https://www.jamendo.com/track/1108723/future-chiptune]]>
Chocolate Milk


Link of the recording [ https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nixers...-09-18.mp3 http://podcast.nixers.net/feed/download....09-181.mp3 ]


Adam's story, milky chocolate, unicomp, and plan9.

--(Show Notes)--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicomp
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/plan9.html
http://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/15235...ng-System/
http://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/15235...tem//page2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_milk
http://pub.iotek.org/p/R4hgeL5
http://pub.iotek.org/p/iK0FNXy

Music: Future Chiptune - Andrey Avkhimovich
https://www.jamendo.com/track/1108723/future-chiptune]]> <![CDATA[Harvey OS]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Harvey-OS Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:34:46 +0000 apk]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Harvey-OS
so i got really drunk last night and installed 9front on my main desktop and yknow its a good system i mean its not bad yknow and its definitely a good improvement from the original plan 9 system but fro told me about this one system called harvey several months ago and i never really concerned myself too much with it i mean it was really cool and the idea of it was really cool but idk maybe it wasnt as cool then as it is now but the point is im DRUNK AGAIN and currently building the OS gonna make a disk image outta it and install that so i tell u what GUYS

lets give a talk about it yeah?

harvey os what is it why is it how is it.

go.

its pretty cool yknow it can be built with gcc and clang instead of 8c or whatever your native plan 9 compiler would have been and it seems to have atleast some noticeable effort to make sure Go works which is cool since Go is dope as fuck and also it seems to be trying to add more modern technologies like idk UEFI i guess and native amd64 which is great cause who the fuck uses 32 bit processors anymore so its like 9front but probably gonna be better also john floren is working on it who is also a 9front dev and is somewhat known in the plan 9 world so what do you have to share ok cool]]>
so i got really drunk last night and installed 9front on my main desktop and yknow its a good system i mean its not bad yknow and its definitely a good improvement from the original plan 9 system but fro told me about this one system called harvey several months ago and i never really concerned myself too much with it i mean it was really cool and the idea of it was really cool but idk maybe it wasnt as cool then as it is now but the point is im DRUNK AGAIN and currently building the OS gonna make a disk image outta it and install that so i tell u what GUYS

lets give a talk about it yeah?

harvey os what is it why is it how is it.

go.

its pretty cool yknow it can be built with gcc and clang instead of 8c or whatever your native plan 9 compiler would have been and it seems to have atleast some noticeable effort to make sure Go works which is cool since Go is dope as fuck and also it seems to be trying to add more modern technologies like idk UEFI i guess and native amd64 which is great cause who the fuck uses 32 bit processors anymore so its like 9front but probably gonna be better also john floren is working on it who is also a 9front dev and is somewhat known in the plan 9 world so what do you have to share ok cool]]> <![CDATA[Smallest linux distro?]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Smallest-linux-distro Sun, 13 Dec 2015 20:19:16 +0000 deadgone]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Smallest-linux-distro <![CDATA[Plan 9 and derivates]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Plan-9-and-derivates Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:15:22 +0000 pranomostro]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-Plan-9-and-derivates Plan 9 from Bell labs and related operating systems.

Furthermore, it is possible to post stuff like screenshots,
custom plumbing files and programs written for Plan 9, 9front,
nix, 9legacy, 9atom and others.

Enjoy!]]> Plan 9 from Bell labs and related operating systems.

Furthermore, it is possible to post stuff like screenshots,
custom plumbing files and programs written for Plan 9, 9front,
nix, 9legacy, 9atom and others.

Enjoy!]]> <![CDATA[The history of Darwin, and where it is today.]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-history-of-Darwin-and-where-it-is-today Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:11:25 +0000 apk]]> https://nixers.net/Thread-The-history-of-Darwin-and-where-it-is-today Or is it just OS X with a different name?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna go procrastinate some more and not do my homework!
(19-04-2015, 07:11 PM)dsplayer14 Wrote: Sup fellow Linux, BSD, MINIX, OS X, Haiku, Plan 9, and Amiga OS users! Instead of working on my homework and preparing for my graduation, I decided to look into Darwin, and what it consists of. No, not OS X, Darwin. Stuff like XNU and Mach. Supposedly it's open source, or the majority of it is, but I can't find the source anywhere. Anyone have any intel on where the source is? Also, does anyone have a summary of the history and special features that Darwin (or it's components) has over other UNIX-like systems?
Or is it just OS X with a different name?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna go procrastinate some more and not do my homework!
Well, after some simple Googling that I didn't bother to do initially, I found the source to the kernel, XNU (which is a hybrid of Mach and BSD). However, no find on any source of the Darwin operating system. I feel like my best bet is just exploring Apple's open source software repository.]]> Or is it just OS X with a different name?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna go procrastinate some more and not do my homework!
(19-04-2015, 07:11 PM)dsplayer14 Wrote: Sup fellow Linux, BSD, MINIX, OS X, Haiku, Plan 9, and Amiga OS users! Instead of working on my homework and preparing for my graduation, I decided to look into Darwin, and what it consists of. No, not OS X, Darwin. Stuff like XNU and Mach. Supposedly it's open source, or the majority of it is, but I can't find the source anywhere. Anyone have any intel on where the source is? Also, does anyone have a summary of the history and special features that Darwin (or it's components) has over other UNIX-like systems?
Or is it just OS X with a different name?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna go procrastinate some more and not do my homework!
Well, after some simple Googling that I didn't bother to do initially, I found the source to the kernel, XNU (which is a hybrid of Mach and BSD). However, no find on any source of the Darwin operating system. I feel like my best bet is just exploring Apple's open source software repository.]]>